Hi guys,
I am another victim of these Fido Roam Charges while I was in Mexico from Jan 10 to Jan 18. I was conscious about turning off my Cellular Data as well as ensuring the Roaming Data is also off on my phone prior to boarding the flight to Mexico.
When I return and saw the Fido bill, I was surprised by these roaming charges. So I start googling and calling up Fido customer support.
From googling, I found out that this is a very common issue for iPhone users where there are still "leakage" of data usage when the phone has Cellular Data turned off.
The data usage was as follows (the 5M data usage on Jan 10 was prior to boarding the flight):
And I was charged with the following:
So I called customer support and tried to dispute these charges but end up unsuccessful.
My argument is as follows:
1. My Cellular Data as well as Roaming Data was switched off.
2. From the small data usage, it prove that I have no intention to use data at all during my trip and these are somehow glitches in the phone or system that I am not aware about.
3. I have not consented that I wish to use Fido Roam or activate Fido Roam
4. I was not informed that I have activated Fido Roam for each of the days I was charged
Below is their argument saying the charges are valid:
1. There was roaming data usage, it doesn't matter how much so I was charged for the full day
2. They have sent a text message explaining the charges and that Fido Roam was available if I were to use
3. I should have switch on airplane mode or pull out my sim card instead of just turning off cellular data and roaming data
The best they could do is to refund one day worth of charges ($12) and offer me extra data and free long distance call in the next cycle.
I just find this to be ridiculous how they can charge a full day for a 15kb usage (Jan 14th). Also by them sending you a text saying Fido Roam is available you automatically opted-in on the service and they can charge you the moment they detect any usage. They don't even tell you Fido Roam is activated for the full day.
After calling them and speaking to multiple reps with the same result, I now decided to switch to a different carrier and I will be filing a complaint to the Business Bureau and CRTC.
Hello JuliaT,
Welcome to the community!
I understand you have not found my previous replies helpful so I'll keep this brief. What is considered a solution would be in the eye of the beholder. Judging by your other post:
@JuliaT wrote:
Bro, just give us refunds.
a response you would find acceptable as a solution would be a refund for roaming charges. However, that does not solve the actual cause of the roaming data usage...
I am not going to rehash what has been previously provided in this thread. If getting a refund is what you consider a solution, then no, a community forum will not get you your solution. If you would like to discuss the possibility of getting a refund, you would need to contact customer service.
Cheers
Hello Petesz,
Welcome to the community!
Sorry to hear you might have incurred unexpected roaming charges. However, had you actually received roaming charges or had you just received the Welcome Abroad text notification? Merely receiving that Welcome Abroad message does not necessarily mean that your device had used services. I was able to confirm that merely receiving that message does not incur roaming fees (see here). However, if you did incur roaming charges, it's likely your device used other services when it connected to the foreign network.
The Fido Roam charges will only incur if your phone uses services -- make or receive a call, send a text message or use data abroad. While receiving SMS would not incur the roaming charge, it's worth mentioning that the data contained within MMS (incoming or outgoing) would be considered roaming data and charged accordingly. You should note that MMS are not solely restricted to pictures or video messages. Messages with subject headers or group messages etc are also considered MMS. It should also be noted that RCS messages are sent (and received) as data and not as text messages (SMS). Even if a received text message is SMS, if your device is configured to provide Delivery and/or Read receipts, those would be sent as SMS or data and considered roaming usage.
I understand you had disabled roaming data. However, it should be noted that disabling data and roaming data does not prevent roaming for calls and messages. In addition, it should also be noted that some phones might consider certain system data differently from user data and continue to allow the former usage despite data and roaming data settings disabled. For example, while disabling data and roaming data should prevent data usage on foreign networks, some mobile manufacturers (ie Apple) does seem to allow some data usage despite those settings disabled. That's why in order to prevent roaming charges, it is usually recommended to keep Airplane or Flight modes enabled for the duration of trips. Customers could manually enable Wifi when required.
@Petesz wrote:
...I have never had such issue while I was using my pay-as-you-go plan before the acquisition...
To which acquisition are you referring? Fido was purchased by Rogers in 2004. Before they were acquired, Fido was only a GSM (2G) provider. Data (GPRS or EDGE) was rather slow back then and I imagine roaming data was also limited. In fact, iPhones weren't released until 2007 so it couldn't have been an issue at that time.
As well, you should note that roaming is different for pre-paid and post-paid services:
For post-paid roaming, when the user first switches their phone on, the visited network checks in real time whether the home network authenticates the customer and authorises its use abroad... ~ taken from here.
That would result in the Welcoming text message we receive when our phones connect to a foreign network.
...But the data records (CDRs) with the details on each SMS and data session are sent to the home operator with some delay (up to several days).. ~ also taken from link above.
If home networks don't receive usage information in real-time, it's not possible for them to provide customers with notification that a roaming session has begun without a delay.
The situation is different with pre-paid services where a real-time exchange is required to prevent the balance of the roaming customers' accounts from becoming overdrawn. That's likely the reason why pre-paid roaming often costs more than post-paid roaming.
Since pre-paid services require funds before access to services, that could be a reason you had not previously incurred roaming charges for that usage.
@Petesz wrote:
....This could only happen in Canada. In any other market, they would be quickly pushed out of business. I have used 10+ different world renown mobile providers in 10+ countries with my iphone. None of them incurred roaming charges if I choose to turn off data roaming on while traveling abroad...
I understand that is your personal experience. Unfortunately, our own personal experiences do not necessarily reflect the situations of all consumers. I am aware some people have referenced other providers not charging for such data usage. However, while they may have previously forgiven an initial instance of such roaming data, they appear to also be charging for data usage even with those settings disabled (see here, here, and here). The issue is not limited to Fido (or Rogers).
And no, it doesn't only happen in Canada. The issue appears to also affect customers in the United States (see here and here). Their plans and roaming features may be slightly different than on this side of the border, yet people also note data roaming charges despite data settings disabled. In addition, the issue appears to also affect European Countries (see here)...
There are numerous examples showing that this issue seemingly affects customers outside of Canada as well. The issue is some devices are letting the data usage despite data and roaming data settings disabled. There are people who have suggested it's due to a network handshake or phones pinging the cellular towers. All mobile phones ping and conduct handshakes with cellular towers. However, the issue does not affect all cellular devices. As illustrated by this member on another forum, only some devices have this issue (see here). Apple has apparently acknowedged that their devices do allow 'SIM data' with data and roaming data settings disabled (see forum thread above). Unfortunately, no one is holding the manufacturers accountable.
The technical issue is all Apple's. Mobile providers only know usage. I believe the issue stems Apple and their protected ecosystem. The reason I heard a long time ago (unfortunately unable to locate reference) was that Apple devices need to connect to their servers in order to operate correctly. That connection is not a simple cellular tower handshake or ping and not related to mobile providers. That data exchange abroad would be considered roaming usage.
Hope this helps 😀
Cheers
Thank you for the lengthy reply. As I said in previous post, my roaming was off the entire time I travelled abroad and I have not picked up any phone calls, only received texts. Your customer service said on the phone that this is a common issue for Fido users as she herself was a victim when she was traveling in US. I contacted Apple tech support - here is screenshot of their reply: once roaming is turned off, they guarateen there will not even be a tiny in/out roaming data flow generated. If Fido still thinks it is Apple's technology that is causing this issue, I suggest Fido, for the merit of all your loyal users, sue Apple for this pitfall, would you? If a million users are experiencing this issue and each of them is charged $16 for <1M of data generated daily, that is $16m loss for your customer in one day. Mistakes like this need to be corrected and you have all our support. For the past five years I lived/traveled in 10+ countries, have used roaming services with Rogers, China Mobile, China Unicom, Verizon and Vodafone with the same iphone14 - and not one provider charged me roaming fees once my data roaming was turned off - only Fido did. So stop trying to find rare cases from other service provider to justify your doing - do something real for your user instead. I am happy to be on the witness stand for Fido if it proves it is Apple's technical bug that causes the issue. Same time, I will be doing an experiment, while I am still overseas, to use two sim cards, one from Fido and one from AT&T, in the same iphone14, with roaming turned off for both for a month, and see which provider still generate roaming charges. I will broadcast this on Tiktok and Youtube to show the result. Fingers crossed it is a common issue for all iphone users. Cheers.
Hello again,
I understand the reply the Apple tech message provided. However, that is not a guarantee there will not even be a tiny in/out roaming data flow generated. As mentioned, Apple appears to differentiate between user data and necessary system data. Yes, disabling roaming data does disable user data. Unfortunately, those charges are system or 'SIM data'.
What do you expect Apple to admit to? They are happy for customers to blame their mobile providers rather than blame their ecosystem. At the end of the day, if customers blame the mobile providers they will continue to purchase Apple devices. If, on the other hand, they admit customers could get charged for roaming data despite being disabled, customers could choose other device manufacturers.
It is not up to the mobile providers to sue Apple (or any other mobile provider). If customers feel the need, they would be the ones who should sue Apple. The bigger windfall would be a class action from iPhone owners. As mentioned, Apple is apparently aware that their devices can use data while data and roaming data are disabled. However, they have not fully informed their customers of that potential usage.
Again, I understand your experience with other providers. However, if your plans with those providers were pay-as-you-go, that could account for the lack of charges. Pre-paid services need to be funded prior to usage. Most pre-paid services would require purchasing some sort of roaming package prior to usage. If no roaming package was purchased, they would not allow any data usage.
As also mentioned, some mobile providers used to forgive those roaming charges. Unfortunately, rather than continue to be bullied by Apple, those mobile providers have passed those charges onto their customers. It's possible those mobile providers you mentioned had also previously not charged for that usage, but they might now. As illustrated in some of those links, Verizon has also charged for that roaming data...
@Petesz wrote:
.... So stop trying to find rare cases from other service provider to justify your doing...
Rare cases?!? If you actually Googled iPhone using data with roaming data disabled, you would see it's not a rare occurrence. FYI, from an AT&T customer from 3 months ago.
Cheers
Hello again,
@Petesz wrote:
...Assume you are right - Apple does have a technical bug and iphone cannot 100% be turned off roaming. Fido know about this issue yet instead of trying to help fix it, ...
If the data and roaming data settings on iPhones do not disable all data when roaming, that is not an issue any mobile provider can fix. Mobile providers do not have access to the inner workings of devices. Those devices will continue to use data despite those settings being disabled. **edit** Aside: Airplane or Flight mode should prevent roaming entirely -- at least from cellular networks. **
That said, since the next part of that sentence refers to getting charged for said usage, I assume your so-called fix involves mobile providers forgiving that roaming usage. That's not fixing the issue. That's forcing mobile providers to eat the cost of that roaming data usage. That data usage is on another provider's network so it's not free for your home provider as many might claim.
As mentioned, many providers did forgive that early roaming usage. However, it appears apparent Apple has no plans to allow their devices to disable all data. Rather than continue to be bullied by Apple to just accept those roaming data use charges, those mobile providers have chosen to pass those charges onto their customers. I understand it may not be a customer's fault for how Apple designed their device, however, it's not really any mobile provider's fault either.
I understand you may not have previously been charged for that usage with other providers. I cannot speak to your personal experience. However, the number of customer accounts from around the World reciting the same issue and getting charged by their mobile providers cannot be discounted.
Granted, the cost of the bit of roaming data used might not amount to the Fido Roam daily fee. However, that is how their Fido Roam works. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, if you did not wish to avail of the feature, you would have to opt-out of Fido Roam. If so, any usage would be on a pay-per-use basis.
Cheers
Hello again,
@hk13456 wrote:
...Data leak or usage leak is a fact. ...
Yes, that seems to be a fact. However, it absolutely matters what is the cause of issue. There are countless examples of this same issue happening all over the World yet you expect Fido to change their business practices because Apple refuses to address the issue. That said, I'm doubtful Apple would ever concede and make changes. As mentioned, Apple are happy for customers to blame their mobile providers rather than blame their devices. That's exactly what's happening in this thread.
Rather than continue to try to force mobile providers to address the issue, it may be more constructive to address your concerns at the root cause. I understand you have already contacted Apple.
@hk13456 wrote:
....They say likey the SIM is bypassing the cellular data settings on IOS devices as there is no data usage logged on any of the apps or system app....
Bypassing cellular data settings is a device issue. It is a known problem. Yet, people seem to give Apple a pass on the matter...
As mentioned in other posts, it's not a simple ping either. All devices ping networks, however, only some use data as well.
I understand customers are caught in the middle. Customers could refuse to use iPhones until Apple addresses the issue. I understand that would be unlikely to happen, though.
Over the years, Fido has had different roaming options. Fido Roam is their current option. As also mentioned in other posts, customers not wishing to avail of the feature would need to opt-out of Fido Roam. In doing so, usage would be on a pay-per-use basis. The pay-per-use rates can be found here. Alternative methods of preventing unintentional roaming usage have also been provided. However, if you do not wish to remove the Fido SIM or keep Airplane mode enabled for the duration outside of Canada, there is unfortunately no guarantee your device won't use other services.
Cheers
Hello again,
There are no good guys or bad guys. Unfortunately, there may not be anything to help the situation. The fact is that devices are using data when they are not supposed to. Why should Fido, or any mobile provider, be forced to make changes to accomodate something that should not be happening in the first place? As I have repeated many times, the mobile providers only know usage. No usage abroad, no roaming charges.
If a car manufacturer produced a car with a known speedometer issue such that it displays speeds 20 km/h slower than the actual travelling speeds, it is not up to the police to adjust their radar guns to accommodate those vehciles. Absurd analogy, I know, but the point is that you're expecting one party to make adjustments to cater to an issue derived from another party.
I don't know what Fido chooses to do with your feedback and suggestions. For now, they are continuing with Fido Roam. What I do know is that Fido is not the only provider with whom this issue occurs. That was the point of my recent replies. Another community member posted that it was a Fido issue and could only happen in Canada. I provided evidence to the contrary.
You have been provided with means of preventing unintended roaming charges. You have also been provided the means to opt-out of Fido Roam. You may not appreciate those suggestions, however, that is the current state of the matter.
Cheers
Hello again,
And you are continuing to expect one party to make concessions for another party's issue...
Let's be clear, though. Apple isn't blaming the mobile providers for causing the issue. They pretty much admitted to you:
@hk13456 wrote:
...The way Apple put it is that those settings only prevent iOS and Apps from using data. It doesnt stop / disable the sim from using data or roaming data in this case...
So they know the cause: their settings do not disable all data. They are blaming the mobile provider for passing on the costs of roaming data to customers. In the early days of this issue, the mobile providers were willing to forgive those charges likely because they were not aware of the cause. Now, however, more mobile providers have chosen to pass those charges onto customers.
You are right, though. I don't think this issue will ever end. That's why I stated there may not be anything to help the situation. You have repeatedly suggested Fido take it up with Apple tech. The mobile providers (not just Fido) have likely already taken it up with them before passing the roaming charges on to customers. Apple's position is apparently that they aren't going to change their settings and mobile providers just need to deal with it. Rather than being bullied into accepting those roaming charges, mobile providers are now passing those charges on to the customer.
As I have mentioned previously, Apple is happy for customers to continue to blame mobile providers. What are the consequences for them not taking responsibility? There apparently are none. All over, there are calls for mobile providers to do something or else customers will switch providers. Where are the calls to abandon iPhones if Apple does not fix those settings? I've gone through many posts on Apple's own community and elsewhere regarding this issue and I can't remember coming across even one post threatening to ditch iPhones if the issue isn't corrected. There are no threats to sue Apple either (though, there are many threats to sue the mobile providers)...
I understand you do not wish to continue this back and forth about the cause of the issue.
@hk13456 wrote:
... one of my suggestion is to simply notify the user that Fido Roam has been activated or charged for the day. This at least help identify to the user that hey, we detected data usage and going to charge you one day. And if that's unexpected, they can contact Fido to to understand why that is happening or use one of your suggested measures. One of the issue here is that we are unware we are being charged until we see the hefty bill at the end of the month...
While not in a direct reply to one of your posts, that suggestion has already been addressed in another post in this thread:
@Cawtau @ wrote
...While it might not take a month for Fido to receive your usage, it does not happen in real-time.
For post-paid roaming, when the user first switches their phone on, the visited network checks in real time whether the home network authenticates the customer and authorises its use abroad... ~ taken from here.
That would result in the Welcoming text message we receive when our phones connect to a foreign network.
...But the data records (CDRs) with the details on each SMS and data session are sent to the home operator with some delay (up to several days).. ~ also taken from link above.
If home networks don't receive usage information in real-time, it's not possible for them to provide customers with notification that a roaming session has begun without a delay.
The situation is different with pre-paid services where a real-time exchange is required to prevent the balance of the roaming customers' accounts from becoming overdrawn. That's likely the reason why pre-paid roaming often costs more than post-paid roaming.
There is an easy solution, though. Switch to a device which is not plagued by this issue. Yes, it's possible some android-based device manufacturers also might allow system data to transmit despite data and roaming data settings disabled. However, many do not. Again, I understand most iPhone users would probably not be willing to switch devices. However, they're choosing to continue to use a device with a known issue.
Another option would be would be to switch to pre-paid services. As mentioned in other posts, pre-paid services require the purchase of roaming packages prior to usage. No roaming package would mean no unintended data usage. I also understand not everyone wants pre-paid services.
As also mentioned previously, if customers choose not to remove their SIMs or keep Airplane or Flight mode enabled for the duration outside of Canada, there is no guarantee devices won't use other services.
Cheers
Hello again,
If you have forgotten, I don't work for Fido. I don't know whether Fido is willing to compromise in order improve their iPhone users' customer experience.
I never made any judgement regarding Fido Roam. I only stated that is their current roaming option. It would be up to Fido to determine how best they wish proceed moving forward.
@hk13456 wrote:
...Can we stay focus here on what Fido can do to improve thier Fido Roam service?...
I understand you started this thread and that may be your focus. However, other people have replied in this thread with other issues (ie Wifi-calling abroad, connecting to a foreign cellular tower etc). I have replied to their posts. Most recently, another community member posted that it was a Fido issue and could only happen in Canada. I refuted that claim. I only started to reply to your posts again because you directed your posts to me (see here).
In addition, the title of this thread is not How to improve Fido Roam service. If you wish to start another thread with that focus, by all means. However, I will continue to reply to other community members' posts in this thread when relevant, even if those posts do not adhere to your intended focus.
Cheers
