Charged for Fido Roaming due to outgoing SMS that I can't find

[vlasmarias]

In my last bill, my phone was charged with Fido Roam. I checked the bill and there was no mention of me roaming on either the Data or the call logs. When I contacted Fido support, they mentioned that it was due to me sending SMS while in Japan. They provided me with the exact time of 6.54 am EST on Dec 22nd. I definitely have not sent any text messages while in Japan. My iPhone's text message logs confirm that - the only thing I got that time was the Fido welcome text message. I asked Fido support to let me know which phone I supposedly tried to send a text message to, and they said that due to privacy reasons, they are not able to do that. So I'm stuck. 

[Cawtau]

Hello,

  I understand this is an old thread, however, there have been recent comments made. With regards to the OP's issue, 

while receiving SMS would not incur the roaming charge, it's worth mentioning that the data contained within MMS (incoming or outgoing) would be considered roaming data and charged accordingly. It should noted that MMS are not solely restricted to pictures or video messages. Messages with subject headers or group messages etc are also considered MMS. Disabling MMS should prevent that data transfer. Though, it should further be noted that iMessages and RCS messages are sent (and received) as data and not as text messages (SMS). Even if the text message received is SMS, if a device is configured to provide Delivery and/or Read receipts, those would be sent as SMS or data and considered roaming usage.

  If the device is configured to provide Delivery and/or Read receipts, those text messages are generally considered system SMS. While those SMS would show on the sytem, they would not show in the device's text message history (similar to the old voicemail indicator SMS system).

Hope this helps 😀

Cheers

[ik333]

I can see this post was made quite a few years ago but I'm adding a comment here because I had a similar experience with Fido just now, except in my case they're insisting I made phone calls while roaming when I didn't. They were able to provide me with the numbers I apparently called and they were legit contacts,  but no calls were made to them during my trip to the US. In fact, I didn't make any calls during the trip, proven by my device's call history and my bill details which both show no record of phone calls during my trip. When I first called them about the roaming charges, the agent confirmed they could not see any roaming usage and said the charges would be removed, but it was rejected by Fido saying I made these phone calls that only they can see on their end.

Fido used to be great, but they've become a really scammy company, and this act of creating fake calls to charge me with is the final line. I'll be getting a callback about it tomorrow, and if they don't fix the error I'll be reporting this to the CRTC as it's a crazy thing for them to do to a long time customer of 15 years.  

[Cawtau]

Hello Ik333,

Welcome to the community!

  Were the numbers called Canadian phone numbers? Do you use Wifi-calling? If the numbers called were to non-Canadian phone numbers and with Wifi-calling, it's possible those charges did not incur during your trip to the US. 

  If you were not aware, using a VPN, DNS, etc set to a different Country with Wifi-calling could possibly result in roaming charges (see here). 

 Hope this helps 😀

Cheers

[FidoPhilippe]

Hey @ik333! I hope you're doing well. 😊

I can certianly understand your frustration! Was this problem ever resolved to your satisfaction?

Please let us know.

[Cawtau]

Hello Vlasmarias,

  Is this issue related to the one you posted here?

Cheers

[vlasmarias]

No, I don't think it's relatedy, Cawtau. For that one, we definitely knew we used Data when we opened browsers. For this one, Fido Support provided me the exact time I supposedly sent a tet message, and there's no outgoing or even incoming message within an hour of that time. The only text message on my phone was the obligatory "welcome to Fido Roaming" text message. What would be really helpful is if Fido provided me the phone number that I supposedly texted, but they said they're not able to due to privacy reasons. I don't understand why they can't provide it as it's my account. So I'm now stuck with just having to accept what they said that I supposedly did?

[Cawtau · Accepted solution]

Hello again,

  Thank you for the additional information. Firstly, I was able to confirm that merely receiving that Welcom message does not incur roaming fees (see here).

  That said, I understand your charges were apparently for a sent text message. I cannot speak as to what usage occurred on your account. I understand it is frustrating being charged for something you cannot verify. However, the only way usage can be recorded on the system is through your SIM card. It isn't possible to use services without the SIM card.

  I understand you were wanting to know the number to which the text message was sent. Unfortunately, I don't think that information is kept on the system. Text messages are only transiently on the system. Once a message is delivered, it is removed from the system. If a recipient device is not able to receive the message, it will stay on the system for only a few days. After a couple of delivery attempts, if the recipient device is still unreachable, the undelivered messages will also be removed from the system. The only record would be that a text message pass through the system.

 Hope this helps 😀

Cheers

[vlasmarias]

I'm 100% sure that information is stored in the system for a long time. I actually have Jasper portal control access to my company's sim cards with Rogers, Telus, and AT&T. I know for a fact that SMS sent from the phone are stored on the server side for a very long time. Btw, this is how governments are able to petition carriers to retrieve a particular person's SMS communication. 

[BobC83]

I agree, this sounds like nonsense. I know for a fact, having made similar objections myself, that Fido can and does retain communication logs. One thing I would do is get the IMEI off your phone, call Fido back and ask them from which IMEI they show the message as being sent. If the numbers don't match, then your phone could not have sent the message.

It's possible that your iPhone sent an automatic response to an incoming text message - like a read receipt or emoji reaction - that might have registered as an outgoing text message. Your iPhone should also have settings to control and/or disable data, texts and calls when roaming. Double check those settings to see whether your phone is doing anything behind your back.

[vlasmarias]

I checked all the outgoing SMS logs, and there was nothing sent. If Fido can let me know which number I supposedly texted, I can reach out to that number and check what they received during that time. But so far, Fido Live Chat refuses to give me the phone number.

[FidoSaad]

Hey @vlasmarias

Welcome to the Community.

To clarify a few things, though @BobC83 is correct in saying that we can track communications, we actually do so using your Fido SIM card and not your phone's IMEI. For example, if you used your Fido SIM in another device while travelling, we'd still have the history of SMS, calls and data, even if your usage history is not available on your personal device.

What you need to know about your Fido service is that when you cross a border, an SMS and email notification will be sent to you. This notification will inform you of the available rates at your destination, include a link to our roaming coverage, and a contact number to reach our customer support. These details are linked in @Cawtau's solution

On our end, we will only charge you if there is usage made while roaming using your Fido SIM card. That is the only way we can track a communication to your device. Billed usage are calls (incoming and outgoing), sent texts (incoming are free), and mobile data.

In regard to your SMS request, I'm sorry to hear that we did not share the outgoing number texted. We can confirm that text message content cannot be provided, but we can disclose the number texted as long as it's a cellular number. Those records are kept for 90 days and no court order is required. Please contact us at these channels and we'll be happy to look into it.

Hope this helps!

[vlasmarias]

I took a look at the link you provided, and I already tried contacting LiveChat, and they wouldn't give the number to me. Should I do Facebook Messenger instead? I'd rather not phone and be stuck for an hour.

[BobC83]

Again, my experience differs having successfully disputed a charge with Fido citing my IMEI.

I'm not accusing FidoSaad of being wrong or deceptive, but if Rogers/Fido doesn't track the IMEI, then it's one of the only carriers that doesn't: https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/blog/20161208/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/on-call-how-does-my-carrier-know-which-phone-im-using/

Having said that, those articles are a few years old, and it's possible that carriers tracked the IMEI then but not now. I personally find that extremely unlikely, especially when Rogers needs to determine whether you're using a stolen phone: https://www.rogers.com/support/mobility/bring-your-own-device#2.-ensure-that-the-phone-is-not-reported-on-the-blacklist .

If Fido is not tracking the IMEI, then it should, since your SIM can be spoofed or cloned: https://www.techjunkie.com/how-to-clone-cell-phone/

[Cawtau]

Hello again,

  Since those are business SIM cards to which you refer, they might have additional services, such as retaining message contents. However, that is not necessarily the case with personal services. I assumed you referred to your individual account as I do not believe Fido offers business plans.

  I don't think the mobile providers are required to keep the contents of text messages. For example, the graphic shown here shows the majority of US mobile providers do not retain the contents of text messages. That notion is supported by:

~taken from here.

  I understand both of those references are a little dated. This article on Cellphone privacy laws also notes:

  I also understand those references are related to the United States. While it's true different Countries may have different regulations, it seems as though many Canadian cellular providers also do not keep the contents of text messages:

~taken from here.

  I further understand that ruling is also dated. However, I am not aware of any more recent ruling compelling mobile providers to actually keep the contents of text messages. I suspect privacy could be an issue.

  While business services might keep the contents of text messages for an extended period of time, it does not appear the same holds true for personal services.

Hope this helps 😀

Cheers